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D4s announcement


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#1 Virgil

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Posted 25 February 2014 - 02:52 AM

Well, we´ve now got the D4s with minor improvements (as expected). But there are two things i noticed and wonder if that´s good or  bad news for you:

 

1) Still xQD & CF Card Slots - good: Nikon shows it´s commitment for xQD, however, (the bad) with all the rumours arround Lexar´s exit the future of xQD remains still unclear

 

2) High ISO ISO 409.600(!) - it seems that as the megapixel race has ended (for the moment) in exchange for another race - the one for crazy high ISO´s

 

Anything else got refinements (video) and - good news - the pricetag is "just" 500 USD higher compared to the D4.

 

My Market Analysis:

 

The D4s will sell - no doubt about it - may it be pro´s needing the latest and greatest or amateurs with off-limit budget. Working pro´s (referring to newspaper guys etc.) will stick with their D3s as the gain compared to the D4 wasn´t enough to make them move already. For D4 users the gain is even smaller and assuming they burned USD 6k back in 2012 they´ll not burn another USD 6.5k for minor improvements some 18 months later. In fact i see dropping D4 used prices whilst D3s are stable and recently even slightly increased and this situation will aggravate with the availability of the D4s. Speaking in Dollars - whilst the D4 was end of 2013 at arround USD 5.8k (approx.20-30kk actuations, mint condition), it fell to USD 5.2k within roughly 2 months. In comparison - the D3s ended last year at USD 3.8k and is now available at USD 4.1k (approx. 20-40k actuations, mint condition).

 

Not sure if Nikon is exactly aware that they´re losing the larger number of their pro´s (possible D4 buyers) to either used Nikon stuff or lesser bodies as from their business perspective cant justify a D4/D4s. By that Nikon also makes this group vulnerable to offerings from other brands. 


Cheers

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#2 james23p

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Posted 25 February 2014 - 06:49 AM

For me the pro bodies have to be updated every few years to keep the pro community in the latest and greatest technology. As far as the regular consumer this will sell because there is enough people who like to have the latest and greatest and I think those who skipped the D3s and D4 the D4s might be their upgrade path. As far as pros and cons I can't speak on that until we get the speed of the camera and the IQ reports from real life shooting. Jim

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#3 Herman

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Posted 25 February 2014 - 06:54 AM

If I were to upgrade (still very happy with my D300), I would be inclined to purchase an immaculate D3s.

 

Would save approximately 50% or more in respect of D4s pricing.

 

:)


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#4 Keith M

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Posted 25 February 2014 - 08:46 AM

well my d700 gives me as much low light capability as I need now, so if "upgrading" I'd probably get a D3x or D800


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#5 Art

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Posted 25 February 2014 - 09:03 AM

Virgil,

 

Great write up, thanks.  I would be inclined, if I had that kind of cash….. to go wild and buy a D4s …..  :lol: !  Just because.  Luckily (depending on how you look at it), I don't have that kind of cash to go WILD with.

 

So, I will just read the stories, see the pics and get a brochure!  ;)

 

Nice to see the new WAR is high ISO.  This is much better than the HUGE MP race.  Bigger buffers would be nice too!


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#6 Dennis

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Posted 25 February 2014 - 09:44 AM

It's suppose to have better IQ as well, not just one stop better low light, they said they "reworked" the D4 sensor and  are using EXPEED4. so, two things have changed. They defiantly went for the video folks, as they can now grab 2mp stills as they shoot vid (our own Dave's prediction). They also changed the AF module, and now can group the the AF sensors. So, there is more to see what it can do.

 

I will stay where I'm at. If anything, if Virgil is right, the price of a D4 will really go down. Now, that would be an interesting thought.


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#7 BrianS

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Posted 25 February 2014 - 02:36 PM

The ISO war - someone should call it a victory, and move onto the Dynamic Range Battle. I'd like to see a true 16-bit Raw image.


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#8 Dennis

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Posted 25 February 2014 - 03:15 PM

Yeah, it's just one stop more over the current D4, and we still haven't seen an image from it yet. Unless I missed something.


Thanks, Dennis.

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#9 Gary Worrall

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Posted 25 February 2014 - 04:39 PM

Will have to stick with my "MiniD3" Actually, if I had that sort cash flow, actually, I would be buying new glass first!

Edited by Gary Worrall, 25 February 2014 - 04:51 PM.

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#10 Virgil

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Posted 26 February 2014 - 03:36 AM

Great comments!

 

@ Keith - the D700 is a great camera - your upgrade path depends on your shooting preferences and if you don´t need the integrated vertical grip there are good reasons to go with the D800 (36MP are an eye-opener in regards to Detail gained high ISO can be better hidden in resizing compared to the D3x etc.).

 

@ Dennis - the D4s uses still the Multi-CAM 3500FX (as the D3, D3s, D3x, D4) - the new trick is something the older bodies could learn via FW-upgrade (but most likely Nikon will not provide one)

 

@ Brian - you´re so right - at least it looks like reason has triumphed and hopefully in the next Iteration we´ll see DR improvements and even better color conservation in higher ISO shots etc.. However, Nikon is market driven and can´t ignore the fact that the product of a competitor provides 2MP more resolution, even if this 2MP won´t impact the final result at all.

 

As i was asked where i got this market insight from. It´s my personal conclusion out of what i see in the used market in Europe along with information from other pro photographer and a certain insight into Nikon Europe. Above findings may not be applicable for your region / market.


Cheers

Virgil

#11 Gary Poole

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Posted 26 February 2014 - 12:59 PM

Great comments!

 

...

@ Dennis - the D4s uses still the Multi-CAM 3500FX (as the D3, D3s, D3x, D4) - the new trick is something the older bodies could learn via FW-upgrade (but most likely Nikon will not provide one)

...

Nikon may not be able to do this on the D4 with a firmware update.  The new faster Expeed4 vs. the Expeed3 could be a significant part of the reason for AF enhancement.


Edited by Gary Poole, 26 February 2014 - 01:00 PM.

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#12 Dennis

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Posted 26 February 2014 - 01:42 PM

I think some things, not everything. Like the tweaks they made for the Df, and I agree, if it's EXPEED4, then those can't be done. But, I'm sure their are some tweaks that can be applied.

 

Like this one doen't sound like EX4; "Algorithms used by the AF system have been refined for greater accuracy and versatility demanded by professional photographers. Autofocus is initiated faster and is better able to acquire and track the intended subject." But, the rest of that, the AF groupings wouldn't.

 

They gave more detail later; "Very precise adjustment of AF algorithms based on the Advanced Multi-CAM 3500FX autofocus sensor module enables certain acquisition of even erratically moving subjects and those exhibiting little in the way of contrast." So, this could be a firmware update.

 

I wouldn't expect to get the better ISO as it said that part is tied to EX4. But they probably could give the Df update on the noise to the D4.

 

Will Nikon do that?


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#13 Black Pearl

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Posted 26 February 2014 - 03:27 PM

The thing you have to remember is the people who actually need this camera have massive budgets so price is irrelevant.

If they can gain even one stop over their current body or more to the point one stop over the bloke standing next to them then the cost is irrelevant. 

If they can shoot video at 60p (thats p by the way not i) and get a usable still from it then there will be circumstances where those sorts of frame rates will make a difference and the cost becomes irrelevant.

 

If your thoughts go along the lines of 'That's expensive' - 'I don't think one stop is a big enough step up' - 'I'll stick with what I have now' etc then you aren't the target market for the camera and frankly Nikon don't care what you think. Thats not being harsh or cheeky and I get that this is simply a discussion regarding a new pro body but at the end of the day it is a pro body, aimed at pro users who rely on the very best technology can give them to make a living.


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#14 Virgil

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Posted 27 February 2014 - 05:10 AM

The industry has changed and the times where money was a non-issue are long gone. Even the target audience considers costs over possible gain in profit. More so as competition isn´t happen in the field of sheer quality rather than quantity and speed (speaking about news). With all those "freelance photographers" using their mobiles or alike and provide their "shots" to the world, business became much tougher. The video-function is nice but it´s not even close to what the news teams using dedicated pro-videocameras can do. All in all it´s not about "this is expenisve" or technical aspects rather than the answer to the question "do i have a) a very short ROI and b ) do i earn n-more-$ on top to justify the Investment?" and as it currently looks like both answers do not look positive to the majority of the target audience making their living from photography (at least in Europe). Nikon cares a lot about their NPS-members (which I´m admittedly one of many) and what they have to say - trust me.


Cheers

Virgil

#15 BrianS

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Posted 27 February 2014 - 05:33 AM

Sometimes things are not just firmware, although I wish they were- make my life easier. With regard to the Df vs the D4 noise improvement, this thread in dpreview is good:

 

http://www.dpreview..../thread/3583026

 

The knowledgeable OP attributes it to the slower read-out rate of the sensor. Having spent most of the 1980s getting paid to work with high-speed data acquisition systems for digital imagers, I learned that it is easier to eliminate sources of electronic noise rather than isolate them. In the case of the Df- no GPS, no WiFi, etc. To someone that "Just wants an Image": those things are unnecessary generators of RF noise that are going to interfere with MY signal that I want to acquire and they need to be eliminated or isolated. Isolation usually means physical separation into a different compartment, and "heavy metal"...

 

With the D4- the sensor readout might be under firmware control, might not. Depends on the base rate of the source clock and how it is divided down. It might be possible to put a firmware selection in to cut the readout rate in half, but it depends on the architecture. The other RF-Noise producing devices- depends on how much of their circuitry can be powered down during shooting, back to hardware.


Edited by BrianS, 27 February 2014 - 05:36 AM.

Nikkor-SC 5cm F1.5. And maybe 100 or so other Nikkor lenses. Maybe 60 of those are on Nikon cameras right now.


#16 Dennis

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Posted 27 February 2014 - 09:20 AM

I wonder if the new battery will fit the D4 as well?


Thanks, Dennis.

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#17 Art

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Posted 06 March 2014 - 10:35 PM

According to Nikonrumours.com, D4s is shipping!!!  In limited numbers...  

 

Sweet!


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#18 photojazz

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Posted 07 March 2014 - 02:35 PM

Sweet x 4...D4s.


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#19 Dennis

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Posted 19 March 2014 - 08:21 AM

A Compassion of the D4s to D4 ISO test. This is what I'm seeing around the net;

 

http://photographyli...-iso-comparison


Edited by Dennis, 19 March 2014 - 08:22 AM.

Thanks, Dennis.

Photography: 100 percent art, 100 percent technical. It takes a photographer to blend them into an image.

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#20 james23p

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Posted 19 March 2014 - 08:58 AM

I hear the AF is really improved and super fast. One person I kind of know who's a Memphis shooter is just raving and he has a D4 and D3s and says the D4s blows them both away and this is a guy who doesn't say much as a matter of fact he rarely raves about gear he's a pro and for him they are just tools they are beat up and look like heck.

 

Jim


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#21 winclk

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Posted 19 March 2014 - 09:01 AM

No upgrade for me..I am still madly in love with my D800  :D


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#22 photojazz

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Posted 19 March 2014 - 03:02 PM

Robin me tooooooo! Good luck to the D4 folks but I am awaiitng my D605 (Newly updated D600)  :rolleyes:  :rolleyes: , and still have the D7000, D200, Nikon F5 and F4, FE2 and EM.

 

Yeaaaaaaa Boyeeeee :D


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#23 Randy

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Posted 04 April 2014 - 05:03 AM

well you gotta have a problem that needs fixing 1st and the D4 focuses great on high school football fields so I have my doubts about the d4s' improved AF or at least how dark does it have to be to see (lol) the improvement......

 

and 200k iso shots weren't meant to be shot

 

iso10k on the d4 is good

 

chasing higher iso-s is done for me and alot of pros


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#24 fotofill

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 07:27 PM

There have been a few times D4 has kinda missed focus for me. But, its been the closer focusing range that was the problem, rather than the farther distance focusing like football or baseball. But, the photographer has caused many problems. I try to kick his butt on occasion. On 9 points focus, you really have to concentrate.


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