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Planet Nikon Official: Nikon Mirrorless Announcement and information


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#61 Sailjunkie

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Posted 25 August 2018 - 12:55 PM

I'm quite happy to share reviews and other info on this.  Nikon Rumours has a good user summary.

 

https://nikonrumors....px/#more-125769

 

I stand by my earlier comment.  This looks like it isn't a bad camera at all.  However, post-launch reality hasn't lived up to pre-launch hype.


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#62 Sailjunkie

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Posted 25 August 2018 - 12:58 PM

And Thom Hogan weighs in, comparing Nikon vs Sony.  Looks like he tried to be objective.  :)

 

https://www.sansmirr...-mirrorles.html


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#63 Sailjunkie

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Posted 26 August 2018 - 01:55 PM

Thom Hogan is really posting a storm. 

 

Oddly, I'm not planning to buy a mirrorless camera, but the first post on 2 card slots is instructive, even for me.

 

https://www.sansmirr...lure-issue.html

 

Also has some comments on the lens road map:

 

https://www.sansmirr...e-z-lenses.html

 

I like when I can say that I learned something from a post.  :)


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#64 james23p

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Posted 26 August 2018 - 03:34 PM

His defense of a $600 f1.8 lens is funny. I saw samples on this lens it performs no better at least what they are posting online than the current 50 f1.8G AF-S lens.

 

 The mount is truly revolutionary but then you build slow lens that take no advantage of the mount, makes no sense to me. I could see if these were truly consumer lens at consumer prices, but $600 for the 50 f1.8 ($216 for the current G version $446 for the 1.4G), $1000 for the 35mm f1.8 ($524 for the current G version) and again a $1000 for the  24-70 f4 (The G 24-120 f4 VR is $1096 so this one is close in price) So look at it this way for someone to get a standard prime and kit lens a Z6 will cost you $3500 to just start.

 

Next comparing film to digital is not realistic since when shooting film you may lose 36 shots at most with digital you could lose hundreds so I can understand many are miffed with only one card slot especially event photographers who want a lighter system and would jump at these and in the end they may still jump on them.

 

Again I have to say everything is preproduction that everyone is reviewing so everything is subject to change and I am also confident that the IQ  of the cameras will be top of the line. 

 

I don't know maybe I am to price conscious I might think differently if money was no issue for me.

 

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#65 Art

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Posted 26 August 2018 - 06:50 PM

Jim,

I have a gut feeling, those who were looking for a solution will not be jumping. Not yet, anyway. They will wait or buy another brand in the interum.

As nice as the concept of that new mount is, the introduced products have too many missing pieces for a Pro. They will sell to the fan boys, but when the fanfare is over and done with, those who look with a Check List will shop somewhere else.
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#66 Art

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Posted 26 August 2018 - 07:09 PM

Mark,

Those are two good reads and there is sound rationale in both...... wait for it :lol: ...... HOWEVER ....

1) Nikon is late to the party
2) the competitors have solid head starts and sound product
3) I wouldn’t call mirrorless a mature market yet, but it is entrenched solidly now and pretty much everyone agrees it’s the future of photography
4) because Nikon is late and noticeably absent from the party, they have had time to study the landscape and to clearly see what is needed to jump into the fray

What do they do?

Jump the cue at the high board and do a quadruple somersault back flip for a pin point precision entry into the deep end?

Nope!

They dip their toe in the shallow end and take the stairs into the shallow water.

I don’t doubt this is fine gear and it will take a good image. It’s just not compelling and feature starved. They have laid a small egg.

In my opinion, with all the negative press on this launch, I will venture to say they are already in trouble with this line!

I am disappointed with the line and feel badly for them, but they REALLY need to fire some people ....quickly and speed up their pro line. Like many, I believe they will have “the” camera for the Olympics, but that may prove to be too far down the road.

Time will tell. Good links, thanks.
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#67 ericbowles

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Posted 27 August 2018 - 10:44 AM

I have a very different perspective on many aspects.

 

For example, the 50mm f/1.8 S lens is much sharper edge toe edge than any of the existing 50mm lenses.  Most of the Nikon lenses are sharp in the center, with falloff toward the outer third and corners.  You have to stop them down for reduced CA and sharpness - which kind of defeats the purpose of a fast lens.  The new lens is designed to be sharp wide open - and that starts with the mount.  

 

There is no talk about the buffer and how fast it clears.  The Sony A7RIII holds 30 RAW files - with no compression possible.  The Nikon holds 17 lossless compressed 14 bit files.  But the Sony takes 17 seconds to clear the buffer writing to an SD card.  The Nikon clears the buffer in 2 seconds.

 

Backup is not practical in the Sony A7RIII because the second copy goes to a UHS-I SD card.  That severely slows your frame rate so the buffer is full in 2.5 seconds, but will take over 50 seconds to clear.  

 

Nikon has had a wifi transmitter for some time - the WT-7.  It allows immediate transmission of images to another device.  They have also upgraded the Z camera wifi so it can be paired with computers and other devices.  No specs or testing yet, but you do have viable backup options and these options don't kill frame rate.  If you really need a backup, you want a backup system rather than a system that kills other camera features.  If a backup is mandatory such as for wedding vows or critical shots, use the D850.  You'll still have a backup camera.  

 

I'm yet to hear of a single case where someone lost images on an XQD card.  I know first hand of people who have lost images on SD and CF cards - mainly due to user error.  Maybe it is sample size, but XQD is a much faster and more secure media than CF or SD.  Cards are 70% thicker and have no exposed contacts like SD.  Also note that if there is a card failure, you can't playback the files.  

 

In-body stabilization is a lot bigger deal than anyone has mentioned.  Pull out your 50mm or 14-24 VR lens.  :mellow:  Sorry - they only are on the Z bodies.  Even with manual focus, my Nikon Ai lenses will have stabilization.

 

It seems the comments about the D800 had the same negative tone.  But I have no doubt that if you put one of these cameras in Art's hands and took away his other cameras, he'd make great images.  And so would others here.  Any time you get a new camera there are adjustments.  The last catastrophe was the change in focus modes for the D850 - you know, the camera with the long wait list.  And the catastrophe about the lack of a flash on the D500 and D750.  Change is inevitable, and what I continue to see is excellent new cameras that are different - and that's okay.


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#68 Sailjunkie

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Posted 27 August 2018 - 12:53 PM

Since I'm not even going buy either camera, at some point, I'll give this topic a rest.  Meanwhile, it's fascinating to read various comments and reviews.  There appears to be overwhelming consensus on what thing:  Nikon Marketing seriously dropped the ball on this.

 

Meanwhile, Nikon Rumours has an anonymous Nikon Z7 guest post:

 

https://nikonrumors....px/#more-125920

 

Was the Z7 used to capture the Simpsons?  ;)  


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#69 Sailjunkie

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Posted 27 August 2018 - 12:58 PM

Agh!!!  No sooner did I post the above, than I noticed that Thom Hogan is discussing Z7 conspiracy theories.

 

https://www.sansmirr...es-and-the.html

 

I don't always agree with Hogan, but I appreciate his efforts to explain the business strategies behind the products and marketing.  A good learning resource.  :)


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#70 Dennis

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Posted 27 August 2018 - 01:32 PM

Yes, Nikon messed up the marketing. That has been happening for a long while. Nikon used young talent to showcase this camera. Maybe that was their target. who knows, nothing Nikon put out tells anyone why the Z mount is future proof? How exactly, to me with lenses that are 30 years old is it future proof? I can see backward compatibility, not because Nikon showed me. What does Nikon mean by future proof? I only saw one small example from one of the folks that handled the camera, that the 24-70 S lens maybe a great at close focus. But, it was a small example, and with a D850 size sensor and probably better quality (expeed 6 instead of 5  ????), they didn't show a cropped in sample to show off the details.

 

If you were looking for a small carry all camera, then this "might" be it. Unfortunately, we will have to wait for some folks that actually get the camera at the end of September, shoot for about a month, and then give a review of it. So, next year folks. We will have to wait, again.


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#71 Art

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Posted 27 August 2018 - 07:55 PM

Mark,

 

Very good reads, thanks again, for the shares.

 

Nikon did a very good job of building up the excitement to the announcement.  That was good marketing, but like many point out, the announcement is over shadowed by their failure to include the things that make people tick.

 

As I have said before, there is no doubt, this camera will take a good pic..... has anyone SEEN a pic from this camera?  FAIL.

 

Where are the pictures?  This reminds me of people who post Camera Equipment for sale on Craig's List and don't include an image.  9.75 times out of 10, I ignore those ads.  This release is similar in the epic FAIL of these lame ads.

 

Don't get me wrong, I want Nikon win and win big.  I AM TEAM NIKON.  But, for the love of God, try to get it right! This launch is a still birth and I am not sure it will revive until another camera is introduced and it is the Right Stuff.

 

How hard is it to make something people want and then tell them why they want it? I have said repeatedly take a page out of Apple's book.  Nikon needs to fire the top clowns in the Mirrorless Team.  It has never been more evident than now.

 

In regards to the XQD cards being foolproof... nothing is foolproof.  You just have to be the unfortunate that has the ONE card that fails on the day you are photographing the Wedding of the Century.  There should have been two slots and they should be IDENTICAL in performance.  One slot slower than the other is a FAIL.

 

There should have been a f1.0 lens in the announcement, there wasn't.  FAIL  Futures don't pay the bills today.

 

The cameras, regardless of how good they are, should not have been half baked.  FAIL

 

The rest doesn't matter because the damage is done. So, Nikon has about 6 months to get this right.  In that time, they will most likely launch the D6, maybe a D750x and the PRO Mirrorless and the Semi-Pro Mirrorless .... and you can only hope, they learn from the mistakes of the current release. Who knows, maybe this is part of the plan.  6 months is no big deal. Even if we bellyache that long, it will all be forgotten when that right camera sees the light of day!

 

Why 6 months?  

 

Because they are most likely gunning for the top gear for the Summer 2020 Olympics.  That means, you will start hearing rumors by Christmas or early in the New Year, and maybe a late winter announcement, this year .... that means a Spring ship!

 

So, advancement of this line isn't that far away, really.  If they don't, then the line is basically hobbled and their momentum entering mirrorless lost.

 

If you have to explain to everyone why this gear is so great, after two - three days of hype/announcements ... you FAILED.


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#72 Dennis

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Posted 28 August 2018 - 09:30 AM

Nikon issues an apology that they cannot deliver all Z7 and 500mm f/5.6 pre-orders in September

Read more: https://nikonrumors..../#ixzz5PU1mDVv8


Thanks, Dennis.

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​Film: That tangible image that you can see and hold.

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#73 Sailjunkie

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Posted 28 August 2018 - 12:34 PM

Nikon issues an apology that they cannot deliver all Z7 and 500mm f/5.6 pre-orders in September

Read more: https://nikonrumors..../#ixzz5PU1mDVv8

 

Showing, once again, that he who does not learn from history (i.e. D850) is doomed to repeat it.  <_<


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#74 Art

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Posted 28 August 2018 - 02:01 PM

Nikon issues an apology that they cannot deliver all Z7 and 500mm f/5.6 pre-orders in September

Read more: https://nikonrumors..../#ixzz5PU1mDVv8

 

:lol:

 

Yea, yea... I look at that as a Marketing ploy.  Apple does this all the time.... every product they make, good or bad, is such a HOT SELLER, that they "sell out" and you have to wait.  Generates HYPE.

They may very well be back ordered, but in my opinion, it doesn't hurt them.  Nothing gets people more frothy for something than when they made up their minds to buy and they are not available!

 

Most likely, they had NO intention of shipping by that day, or a limited number.... then they take orders for the big production run to fill the back order in order to benefit from economies of scale.

 

It's all good, I hope they sell tons of everything and keep on moving forward.  That, is the bottom line.  Just because I don't like something with this product, doesn't mean it isn't a winner.


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#75 Dennis

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Posted 28 August 2018 - 03:19 PM

 

 

Most likely, they had NO intention of shipping by that day, or a limited number.... then they take orders for the big production run to fill the back order in order to benefit from economies of scale.

 

 

they will ship... to the chosen few. I believe ambassadors are first, not sure about NPS, I'm sure Nikon has their fav's in that group as well.


Thanks, Dennis.

Photography: 100 percent art, 100 percent technical. It takes a photographer to blend them into an image.

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#76 Art

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Posted 28 August 2018 - 03:40 PM

 

they will ship... to the chosen few. I believe ambassadors are first, not sure about NPS, I'm sure Nikon has their fav's in that group as well.

Oh yea, you can be sure the product champions get it first.

 

And, there is nothing wrong with this.  This is marketing.  It is all part of selling product on the big stage.  I know I get lost in the details, but I will bet the average person will go into a store, want a mirrorless and look at IQ and buy these things, while we throw the baby out with the bathwater.


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#77 Dennis

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Posted 29 August 2018 - 09:17 AM

Some interesting stuff while talking to the Z engineers. 

 

https://www.imaging-...iew-deep-dive-q


Thanks, Dennis.

Photography: 100 percent art, 100 percent technical. It takes a photographer to blend them into an image.

​Film: That tangible image that you can see and hold.

My Web Site.
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Member; Colorado Springs Creative Photography Group, NPS member.

Nikon Z7 (My wifes, but I'm allowed to use it once a quarter), Z6, D4, D850, D200, Fm2, FM, Mamiya RB67.
 


#78 Art

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Posted 29 August 2018 - 05:16 PM

Thanks for the link, Dennis.


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#79 Herman

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Posted 30 August 2018 - 03:25 AM

I'm still happily trodding along with my D50, D300 & D810 so absolutely no inclination to go the Z-route!

 

:rolleyes:


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#80 Dennis

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Posted 30 August 2018 - 08:54 AM

A note from Thom H.

 

A note to NPS members: Nikon opened up Priority Purchase for all the Z products and the new 500mm f/5.6E PF this week. Go the NPS Web site, sign in, then scroll down to Benefits and click on the Submit a Request button next to Priority Delivery. To everyone else, yes, this means that we're likely to see a repeat of what happened with the D800, D500, and D850: high demand from NPS members limits first shipment supply. Nikon is already apologizing for not being able to meet all pre-order demands.


Thanks, Dennis.

Photography: 100 percent art, 100 percent technical. It takes a photographer to blend them into an image.

​Film: That tangible image that you can see and hold.

My Web Site.
My 500px page.

My Instagram.
Member; Colorado Springs Creative Photography Group, NPS member.

Nikon Z7 (My wifes, but I'm allowed to use it once a quarter), Z6, D4, D850, D200, Fm2, FM, Mamiya RB67.
 


#81 Art

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Posted 30 August 2018 - 11:07 AM

A note from Thom H.

 

A note to NPS members: Nikon opened up Priority Purchase for all the Z products and the new 500mm f/5.6E PF this week. Go the NPS Web site, sign in, then scroll down to Benefits and click on the Submit a Request button next to Priority Delivery. To everyone else, yes, this means that we're likely to see a repeat of what happened with the D800, D500, and D850: high demand from NPS members limits first shipment supply. Nikon is already apologizing for not being able to meet all pre-order demands.

 

Checked my email, then check my special SPAM FILTER entitled, "Mail for NPS CHUMPS IN CANADA" .... empty.  no email. No coupons for a T-Shirt of Free Pizza. Just cobwebs.  <_<

 

Maybe tomorrow !

 

:lol:


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#82 Sailjunkie

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Posted 30 August 2018 - 01:00 PM

I'm still happily trodding along with my D50, D300 & D810 so absolutely no inclination to go the Z-route!

 

:rolleyes:

 

Same here.  :)


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#83 Dennis

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Posted 30 August 2018 - 01:42 PM

 

Checked my email, then check my special SPAM FILTER entitled, "Mail for NPS CHUMPS IN CANADA" .... empty.  no email. No coupons for a T-Shirt of Free Pizza. Just cobwebs.  <_<

 

Maybe tomorrow !

 

:lol:

 

 

They still remember the D5 incident!    :ph34r:  :P  B)


Thanks, Dennis.

Photography: 100 percent art, 100 percent technical. It takes a photographer to blend them into an image.

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#84 Art

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Posted 30 August 2018 - 08:47 PM

:lol:
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#85 Dennis

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Posted 30 August 2018 - 10:07 PM

Im going tomorrow night, 6 pm my time, as I was invited to look and touch the new Nikon mirrorless. Ill take a card with me, and shoot, if I can. And Ill report what I think. I think a Nikon rep will be there. Im think of also taking my 85/1.4. Just in case they have a FTZ adapter.

Thanks, Dennis.

Photography: 100 percent art, 100 percent technical. It takes a photographer to blend them into an image.

​Film: That tangible image that you can see and hold.

My Web Site.
My 500px page.

My Instagram.
Member; Colorado Springs Creative Photography Group, NPS member.

Nikon Z7 (My wifes, but I'm allowed to use it once a quarter), Z6, D4, D850, D200, Fm2, FM, Mamiya RB67.
 


#86 winclk

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Posted 31 August 2018 - 03:10 PM

Can't wait to hear what you think about the camera, Dennis...


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#87 Art

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Posted 31 August 2018 - 03:12 PM

Im going tomorrow night, 6 pm my time, as I was invited to look and touch the new Nikon mirrorless. Ill take a card with me, and shoot, if I can. And Ill report what I think. I think a Nikon rep will be there. Im think of also taking my 85/1.4. Just in case they have a FTZ adapter.

 

Look forward to hearing what you have to say.  Especially, hope to see some picture samples!


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#88 Dennis

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Posted 31 August 2018 - 09:00 PM

At the event, cant use my xqd. Waiting to have a play. They have the 300/2.8 PF

The combination of 55mm mount and 16mm flange helps;

More light
No chroma
No flare
More space for the AF motor in the lens allowing it to be faster.

Thanks, Dennis.

Photography: 100 percent art, 100 percent technical. It takes a photographer to blend them into an image.

​Film: That tangible image that you can see and hold.

My Web Site.
My 500px page.

My Instagram.
Member; Colorado Springs Creative Photography Group, NPS member.

Nikon Z7 (My wifes, but I'm allowed to use it once a quarter), Z6, D4, D850, D200, Fm2, FM, Mamiya RB67.
 


#89 Art

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Posted 31 August 2018 - 09:38 PM

Ask about the 500mm.

 

I think if I understand this correctly, it will be fresnel as well!!! That is really interesting.

 

As nice as I think the 300mm is, I don't think it is as sharp as regular glass!  So, if this is the case with the 500mm, that is a hefty price to pay for a "not quite".  BUT, I will bet it is real LIGHT!!!

 

Enjoy.


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#90 Art

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Posted 31 August 2018 - 09:56 PM

AF-S NIKKOR

500mm f/5.6E PF ED VR

 

$4800 in Canada plus tax....

$ 5,424.00 CDN

 

OUCH!

 

Here's the rub, I don't believe it is as sharp as just regular glass.  Just a hunch!  Thats a lot of dough-ray-me for reach, light weight and softish focus.


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