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Some more beasties done with NX


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#1 james23p

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Posted 08 May 2007 - 11:49 PM

The first one is our bad boy. He is a great horse but loves to just run wild sometimes. The buffalo was not great but I was able to pull out the detail of the flies all over this wonderful beast. I wanted to run out there and swat them off the poor guy :angry: . Yet he was as calm as can be. :P D80 for both, 18-135DX on the Horse(rebel) and the 500 f4 Ai-P on the buffalo. The rest of the Data is in the file since it is a NX conversion of RAW. Attached File  DSC_1053.jpg   123.78KB   22 downloads Attached File  DSC_2555.jpg   134.62KB   16 downloads

God bless all those in harms way and Go Navy!



Nikon P900 Nikon P330

F100 w MB-15, N80, FM3a, FE2(Black and Silver) and EM.

Nikkor 24-85G ED AF-S VR, 70-300G ED AF-S VR, 28-105 3.5-4.5 AF-D, 50 1.8 AF-D

Nikon Series E lens, 28mm, 100mm, 135mm, 75-150mm, 70-210 f4.

MF Nikkor's 50 f2 Ai, 500 f4 ED Ai-P.

 

MF Rokinon 14mm f2.8 ED AE UMC(Ai-P)

MF Rokinon 85mm f1.4 ASP AE UMC(Ai-P)

 



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#2 justshootit

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Posted 09 May 2007 - 02:07 AM

The horse is a beauty... That Bison shot is tough lighting without some fill. Have you thought of using a Better-Beamer with a flash to fill shots like that?? Don
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#3 TeeCee

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Posted 09 May 2007 - 06:00 AM

Jim, I notice you do lots of horse pictures. I'm to take pictures at a Special Equestrian event soon and wonder which lens you like best for shooting the horses ..I assume it's the one you're using but want to know if you have any other suggestions. Thanks and sure like these shots! You must have been far away from the Bison. Gaye

#4 james23p

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Posted 09 May 2007 - 07:43 AM

Thanks all for the kind words. For horse shots I really like the 18-135DX it gives me alot of flexibility I think the 18-200VR would be even more flexible. But all my equestrian shots are with the 18-135DX. The only time that may become a problem is if it was an indoor arena then I may have to use my 180 2.8 AF-D ED. The reason I like the 18-135DX other than it is so darn sharp is that horses are rather big and they fill a frame quickly at close to moderate range so the zoom range really helps to zoom out or if they are on the far side enough reach to zoom in. Horses unlike wild animals they are not camera shy they will pose and you can get close most of the time unless you are in Nevada doing wild heards thus my preference to the zooms. A good photog to look up his stuff is Bob Tarr(hope that is the right spelling) google him he is world renowned equestrian shooter my daughter has some of his stuff in her room. The Bison's lighting was really tough, as far as the better beamer I only think about it when someone mentions it, I guess I do not do enough birding and wildlife to keep it on my mind. I should just order one and throw it in the bag. The Bison was about 250 to 300 yards away. Jim

God bless all those in harms way and Go Navy!



Nikon P900 Nikon P330

F100 w MB-15, N80, FM3a, FE2(Black and Silver) and EM.

Nikkor 24-85G ED AF-S VR, 70-300G ED AF-S VR, 28-105 3.5-4.5 AF-D, 50 1.8 AF-D

Nikon Series E lens, 28mm, 100mm, 135mm, 75-150mm, 70-210 f4.

MF Nikkor's 50 f2 Ai, 500 f4 ED Ai-P.

 

MF Rokinon 14mm f2.8 ED AE UMC(Ai-P)

MF Rokinon 85mm f1.4 ASP AE UMC(Ai-P)

 



Pro Manfrotto 055XV with Markins M10 ,Sirui P-326 6-Section Carbon Fiber Monopod with Markins Q3 Emille, Manfrotto Compact MKC3-H01M with Combo Head, 3Pod PTT1H Table Top Tripod with Giottos MH1304 Ballhead.


#5 TeeCee

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Posted 09 May 2007 - 10:12 AM

Thanks all for the kind words.

For horse shots I really like the 18-135DX it gives me allot fo flexibility I think the 18-200VR would be even more flexible. But all my equestrian shots are with the 18-135DX. The only time that maybe become a problem is if it was an indoor arena then I may have to use my 180 2.8 AF-D ED. The reason I like the 18-135DX other than it is so darn sharp is that horses are rather big and they fill a frame quickly at close to moderate range so the zoom range really helps to zoom out or if they are on the far side enough reach to zoom in. Horses unlike wild animals they are not camera shy they will pose and you can get close most of the time unless you are in Nevada doing wild heards thus my preference to the zooms. A good photog to look up his stuff is Bob Tarr(hope that is the right spelling) google him he is world renowned equestrian shooter my daughter has some of his stuff in her room.

The Bison's lighting was really tough, as far as the better beamer I only think about it when someone mentions it, I guess I do not do enough birding and wildlife to keep it on my mind. I should just order one and throw it in the bag. The Bison was about 250 to 300 yards away.

Jim


Jim,
Wow, that helps a lot. I do have the 18-200VR so will use that. I am going to Google Bob Tarr right now.

And if you use Photoshop perhaps you could use 'Shadows/Highlights' to bring out more detail in the Bison. I'm going to play with it now.

Thanks a million for you help with the horse question,

Gaye

#6 Ron W

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Posted 09 May 2007 - 03:14 PM

Nice stuff James. I am liking NX more all the time. It adds a lot of versatility to post processing. Thank you for posting.

www.ronwooldridgephotography.com

 

 

 

 


#7 Bill Dewey

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Posted 09 May 2007 - 03:51 PM

First off, horses are vile, they hate me, they always ALWAYS try to bite my feet, they don't "obey" me the way a well-behaved motorcyle does :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :lol:, other than that, nice shot :D :D As to the Bison, these buggers are tough, and if he was that far away, I don't think the BB would do what you need anyway. So, I don't know how much you use NX, so if what I am about to say is redundant, just tell me to shut up, buzz off, or just ignore me, other folks do ALL the time :lol: :lol: One of the techniques to try is a Color Control Point on the Dark Side of the Bison's head. If you look at my latest post, the GBH babies, the chick on the far right in the last image was very dark, deep shadow, but I wanted to bring out a bit of the detail, beak and eye specifically. I chose a Color Contorl Point, placed it on the head, pulled the Size slider down to surround just the head, moved up Brightness, a little Contrast and some Saturation. I could have made it even brighter, but I did not want it to look out of place. I use this both to bring up as well as tone down specific areas, and you can even fine-tune color casts this way. Second thing to try, Gaye brought up the analog in PS Shadow/Highlight, is D-Lighting in NX. You have 2 different ways to deal with D-Lighting. The first is before demosaicing has been done on your raw image, this is found in the Basic are under lighting. This method is also slower, I find that going to the better detail vs. the faster setting yields much better result. The reason this is slower is that it is working on the "rawest of the raw" data, so a lot of added math is being done. You can also do this as a New Step, which will be much faster as it is working on data that has already been converted. I used to use Shadow/Highlight in PS for all of this, but I find that D-Lighting in the new NX does a great job. Sometimes I will "fine-tune" in CS using Shadow/Highlight as well. All tools to be used. If you would like, I'd be happy to spend a few moments trying to bring more detail out on the Bison. If I can have the NEF I can do what I do and send it back to you with all the steps in place and we can then further discuss. I know for sure that I'll learn a bit from this regardless, even if what I learn is that what I try just flat sucks rocks <_< <_<

#8 TeeCee

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Posted 09 May 2007 - 04:03 PM

Jim,
Wow, that helps a lot. I do have the 18-200VR so will use that. I am going to Google Bob Tarr right now.

And if you use Photoshop perhaps you could use 'Shadows/Highlights' to bring out more detail in the Bison. I'm going to play with it now.

Thanks a million for you help with the horse question,

Gaye


Jim
Here's the Bison with Shadows/Highlights applied. Wow, he sure has a dirty face with lots of flies :-)


Attached File  5_9_07_Bison_shadows_highlights_CS3.jpg   205.68KB   17 downloads

#9 james23p

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Posted 09 May 2007 - 04:11 PM

Nice Tee Cee I really didn't play with the exposure I am still learning NX and have been plowing thru the 250 page manual. But I like what I see so far. Jim

God bless all those in harms way and Go Navy!



Nikon P900 Nikon P330

F100 w MB-15, N80, FM3a, FE2(Black and Silver) and EM.

Nikkor 24-85G ED AF-S VR, 70-300G ED AF-S VR, 28-105 3.5-4.5 AF-D, 50 1.8 AF-D

Nikon Series E lens, 28mm, 100mm, 135mm, 75-150mm, 70-210 f4.

MF Nikkor's 50 f2 Ai, 500 f4 ED Ai-P.

 

MF Rokinon 14mm f2.8 ED AE UMC(Ai-P)

MF Rokinon 85mm f1.4 ASP AE UMC(Ai-P)

 



Pro Manfrotto 055XV with Markins M10 ,Sirui P-326 6-Section Carbon Fiber Monopod with Markins Q3 Emille, Manfrotto Compact MKC3-H01M with Combo Head, 3Pod PTT1H Table Top Tripod with Giottos MH1304 Ballhead.


#10 TeeCee

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Posted 09 May 2007 - 04:12 PM

Nice Tee Cee I really didn't play with the exposure I am still learning NX and have been plowint thru the 250 page manual. But I like what I see so far. Jim

Jim,
I did this in Photoshop CS3..I know that the suggestion Bill Dewey gave would work as well if not better. I also have to learn NX.

#11 Bill Dewey

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Posted 09 May 2007 - 04:24 PM

Jim and Gaye, hope I don't get into trouble for giving someone a plug, but a fellow named Jason O'Dell has done a very good eBook on NX, in my mind well worth the money. I thought I knew a TON about NX, and a lot of what is in the eBook I had been aware of, but just the info on how to use Noise Reduction and Sharpening after NR was more than worth the small cost. If he paid me a commission everytime I gave him a plug I'd be rich :lol: :lol: On NX in general, once I started understanding some of this, and got my head around what I consider a "non-top-notch-stupid UI", I find myself doing far more in NX and less in PS, which surprises the heck out of me. Gaye, what you show in your rendition is very much what I would do, although I would do this targeted just to the head without the need to a selection, this is what I find really neat in NX. Did you do this with the Targeted Adjustment stuff in CS3? I have not explored that yet. The other thing to try with CS3 is the Fill Light in Camera RAW 4, for which we would need the NEF itself. That could be quite interesting also. Jim, don't get bogged down, those danged manuals are best for curing insomnia :lol: :lol:

#12 james23p

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Posted 09 May 2007 - 06:20 PM

Thanks Bill yes the manual is tedious I have been experimenting really thats why I did not target the dark areas haven't got that far yet. Is this the Jason Odell from Nikonians? If so his stuff is good I will look into that I really feel NX may be all I need except PSE-5 for frames etc. I do have lightroom just have not been able to load it due to a bad disk. I would like to use LR for organizing and batch stuff since Picture Project is not very good. Jim

God bless all those in harms way and Go Navy!



Nikon P900 Nikon P330

F100 w MB-15, N80, FM3a, FE2(Black and Silver) and EM.

Nikkor 24-85G ED AF-S VR, 70-300G ED AF-S VR, 28-105 3.5-4.5 AF-D, 50 1.8 AF-D

Nikon Series E lens, 28mm, 100mm, 135mm, 75-150mm, 70-210 f4.

MF Nikkor's 50 f2 Ai, 500 f4 ED Ai-P.

 

MF Rokinon 14mm f2.8 ED AE UMC(Ai-P)

MF Rokinon 85mm f1.4 ASP AE UMC(Ai-P)

 



Pro Manfrotto 055XV with Markins M10 ,Sirui P-326 6-Section Carbon Fiber Monopod with Markins Q3 Emille, Manfrotto Compact MKC3-H01M with Combo Head, 3Pod PTT1H Table Top Tripod with Giottos MH1304 Ballhead.


#13 TeeCee

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Posted 09 May 2007 - 06:29 PM

Jim and Gaye, hope I don't get into trouble for giving someone a plug, but a fellow named Jason O'Dell has done a very good eBook on NX, in my mind well worth the money. I thought I knew a TON about NX, and a lot of what is in the eBook I had been aware of, but just the info on how to use Noise Reduction and Sharpening after NR was more than worth the small cost. If he paid me a commission everytime I gave him a plug I'd be rich :lol: :lol:

On NX in general, once I started understanding some of this, and got my head around what I consider a "non-top-notch-stupid UI", I find myself doing far more in NX and less in PS, which surprises the heck out of me.

Gaye, what you show in your rendition is very much what I would do, although I would do this targeted just to the head without the need to a selection, this is what I find really neat in NX. Did you do this with the Targeted Adjustment stuff in CS3? I have not explored that yet. The other thing to try with CS3 is the Fill Light in Camera RAW 4, for which we would need the NEF itself. That could be quite interesting also.

Jim, don't get bogged down, those danged manuals are best for curing insomnia :lol: :lol:



Bill, gads, I have the EBOOK and now will get busy on it. I only took the JPEG off this thread and then clicked "shadows/highlights' in 'adjustments' in CS3. I think your ideas would give much more control.
I'll get that ebook out and get going. I have all summer up at the lake to do it and certainly, from what I've heard, NX is super and can do much of what PS does.
Thanks,
Gaye

#14 Bill Dewey

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Posted 09 May 2007 - 08:22 PM

Jim, I believe that is the same Jason O'Dell, I mean how many of them can there possibly be????? As to the manual, we are, after all MEN, so reading directions is not at all something we take lightly, right? Just not in our genes :D. I am an inverterate manual non-reader, especially with software. Probably has to do with having been writing this stuff for 30 years, so if I can't intuite the "normal" stuff, I give up. Lightroom is OK as long as you totally buy into the Lightroom way of doing things. You may find this to be a problem if you are using NX, as Lightroom wants to do the "developing" job for you. It won't work with the edits you do in NX that are stored in the NEF directly, LR works with it's own database and sidecar files. In my opinion it is OK for organizing, but has a number of things I don't like, mainly that you have to do things the Lightroom way. But if you are liking the way NX works and renders your raw files, I think that will be your biggest hurdle with Lightroom. You see the job Gaye did with the treatment in PS, and that is from a Web sized JPG. Working with the NEF in NX or even with a 16 bit TIFF in PS will yield much better results, which is not surprising. Let me know if you would like me to give it a go as well. Gaye, I'd say that the 2 places where I find NX to be "way cool" is how it works on the rawest of the raw data. This really helps for Noise Reduction, as well as the initial sharpening and controls, such as D-Lighting. Second part is how the Control Points work. I think of it as "automatic" masking and selection without all the hassle. Ask away with any questions, I'm happy to pass on what I know, the eBook is a huge help here as well.

#15 james23p

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Posted 10 May 2007 - 02:29 AM

Okay I used my new found friend U-Point and lightened some of the dark areas and darkend some of the light ares not perfect but I will practice and get the ebook. That was fun now I wish I could change the U-Point from circles to squares also. Plus using RAW it was fun trash the bad one pull up my untouched RAW and do it again then convert to JPEG to upload. Oh not saying this is better I have a long way to go but I did have fun trying for 45min alot went to the trash can! :P Jim Attached File  DSC_2555.jpg   215.03KB   22 downloads

God bless all those in harms way and Go Navy!



Nikon P900 Nikon P330

F100 w MB-15, N80, FM3a, FE2(Black and Silver) and EM.

Nikkor 24-85G ED AF-S VR, 70-300G ED AF-S VR, 28-105 3.5-4.5 AF-D, 50 1.8 AF-D

Nikon Series E lens, 28mm, 100mm, 135mm, 75-150mm, 70-210 f4.

MF Nikkor's 50 f2 Ai, 500 f4 ED Ai-P.

 

MF Rokinon 14mm f2.8 ED AE UMC(Ai-P)

MF Rokinon 85mm f1.4 ASP AE UMC(Ai-P)

 



Pro Manfrotto 055XV with Markins M10 ,Sirui P-326 6-Section Carbon Fiber Monopod with Markins Q3 Emille, Manfrotto Compact MKC3-H01M with Combo Head, 3Pod PTT1H Table Top Tripod with Giottos MH1304 Ballhead.


#16 TeeCee

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Posted 10 May 2007 - 05:02 AM

Good job, Jim. We'll all get there sooner or later and thanks to you, Bill. I'm getting the Ebook out today and will get moving on it. Gaye

#17 Bill Dewey

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Posted 10 May 2007 - 08:16 AM

Hey, Jim, Great Job!!!! Now, let's move on to Lesson #2 and #3, and we'll do #3 first .... You mention changing the U-Point, Control Point, from a Circle to a Square. First thing to remember is that the Control Point will attempt to work mosly on the color range you point it to, so in this case will affect the "browns" much more than the "greens" within the circle. But NOW, comes the cool bit, you have a couple of ways to specifically define the area. Two things to look up in the manual, and you may need to ask a question or two on the way. First is the use of the Lasso Tool to outline your area. This seemed a bit backward to me because you first place the control point, then choose the Lasso tool, select the area, then choose the +brush to add the effect, then set your Brightness/Contrast/etc. sliders and paint over the selected area. What is cool is that even if your brush wanders outside, the effect isn't applied. Second way is to apply the effect, as you did, then use the -brush to selectively "paint out" the effect where you didn't want it. And to really see this, go to View->Show Selection on the menu. Back to Lesson #2, you mention trashing the bad one and going back to the original NEF. I hope you mean that you did this by simply deleting the Control Point Steps in New Step in the Edit List, and not by reoopening the old file. One other neat trick, look in the manual about the ability to save multiple versions. You can selectively pick and choose which steps to apply, save that set with a "name" and since these are really only tags in your NEF file, you are not resaving the entire file for each version. Many folks do this for different crop sizes or to save a B&W as well as a Color Version. As TC says, it is a real sleeper, problem is, in my opinion, that not only did Nikon do those of us who have used Capture for years a disservice with such a stupid UI change, but then they don't make these really cool things obvious and more easy to understand. Hope this helps, you are sure off to a GREAT start in my not-at-all-humble opinion :lol: :lol:

#18 Ron W

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Posted 10 May 2007 - 10:21 AM

Great stuff folks! I am a recent convert to NX myself, and am constantly amazed by its versatility. It is one great editing tool. I am thinking about converting to a Mac Pro computer for my photographs. I'd like to hear from any of the folks in here that are using Apple. I'm on my way to look up Jason Odell.

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#19 TeeCee

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Posted 10 May 2007 - 12:16 PM

Bill, I got Lightroom not long ago--have it installed but haven't used it. I have had NX on my mind and really want to learn that one. So I get from your comments that LR wouldn't work well with NX..I think that means that I need to make a decision. I keep hearing how great NX is once learned...so I'm now making that decision to go with NX and forget LRoom. Thank you very much :-) :-) Also I use Photoshop (sortof) so I think I can use NX and then PSCS3 and come out okay with my processing,. I am making a declaration, kind of like telling the world I'm going on a diet....It's time for me to learn NX.. I'm going to take out Lightroom and free up that space in my computer. AND I have a D40 which uses an SD card. I can open it in VIEW but it won't open in the old Capture. It only opens in NX.. That has forced to take a good look at NX. My other cameras use Flashcards so I can open them in the old Capture. Perhaps if I get good enough with NX I won't need PSCS3 at all. Better get busy right now on that Odell Ebook. It's right here in front of me. Thanks a million, Gaye

#20 Ron W

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Posted 10 May 2007 - 12:25 PM

Gaye, I'm printing the Odell EBOOK right now! It looks great.

www.ronwooldridgephotography.com

 

 

 

 


#21 TeeCee

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Posted 10 May 2007 - 12:38 PM

Gaye, I'm printing the Odell EBOOK right now! It looks great.


Ron, I should take it to Kinko's to have it printed. Are you printing it yourself? I don't do well with ebooks that I have to sit and look at on the computer. I can't sit very long with my bad back. So thanks for reminding me about printing it.

I guess I could print it myself but 184 pages seems HUGE..

Gaye

#22 Ron W

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Posted 10 May 2007 - 12:47 PM

It is huge Gaye, I am now trying to decide what type of binder to get for it. It has a ton of information. I can't wait to start reading it. I don't like to read from the computer screen either. I hope my ink cartridge lasts long enough for the entire book.

www.ronwooldridgephotography.com

 

 

 

 


#23 TeeCee

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Posted 10 May 2007 - 12:56 PM

It is huge Gaye, I am now trying to decide what type of binder to get for it. It has a ton of information. I can't wait to start reading it. I don't like to read from the computer screen either. I hope my ink cartridge lasts long enough for the entire book.


Ron,

Okay, I think if you can print it then I can print it too. I just have to be sure my black ink is full. It might be cheaper to take it to Kinko's :-)

Let me know in a day or two what you think after reading it. I'm 'ready, willing and able'....


GAYE

#24 Bill Dewey

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Posted 11 May 2007 - 10:10 AM

Bill,
I got Lightroom not long ago--have it installed but haven't used it. I have had NX on my mind and really want to learn that one. So I get from your comments that LR wouldn't work well with NX..I think that means that I need to make a decision. I keep hearing how great NX is once learned...so I'm now making that decision to go with NX and forget LRoom. Thank you very much :-) :-)

Gaye


Gaye, it is not so much that Lightroom doesn't "work well" with NX, but that Lightroom wants to do the "developing" of your NEF for you. I never looked at the released version, only the Beta's right up to release, so something may have changed in this regard, but the other problem with NEF is that when you process in NX the edits are not visible in other applications from the NEF, since all the edits are in the NEF and not in Sidecar files like LR/PS/Bibble. You can, of course, still use LR for your DAM application as well as final edits, same as you would use PS. For what it is worth, here is my current workflow:

1. Load card, cull, sort, categorize, rank in Digital Pro 4, this is the DAM application that I use
2. From DP4, choose a NEF to edit, open in NX
3. All Base rendering, save as NEF and TIFF
4. Open TIFF in CS(2)3 for "touch-ups" (cloning, etc.), cropping, output sharpening, save back to TIFF and JPG
5. Open JPGS in Bridge, run DITTO for framing and web resize

Personally, I think the PS still does a better job of "finalizing" an image than NX, gives me more control.

#25 TeeCee

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Posted 11 May 2007 - 05:51 PM

Gaye, it is not so much that Lightroom doesn't "work well" with NX, but that Lightroom wants to do the "developing" of your NEF for you. I never looked at the released version, only the Beta's right up to release, so something may have changed in this regard, but the other problem with NEF is that when you process in NX the edits are not visible in other applications from the NEF, since all the edits are in the NEF and not in Sidecar files like LR/PS/Bibble. You can, of course, still use LR for your DAM application as well as final edits, same as you would use PS. For what it is worth, here is my current workflow:

1. Load card, cull, sort, categorize, rank in Digital Pro 4, this is the DAM application that I use
2. From DP4, choose a NEF to edit, open in NX
3. All Base rendering, save as NEF and TIFF
4. Open TIFF in CS(2)3 for "touch-ups" (cloning, etc.), cropping, output sharpening, save back to TIFF and JPG
5. Open JPGS in Bridge, run DITTO for framing and web resize

Personally, I think the PS still does a better job of "finalizing" an image than NX, gives me more control.



Bill,
I just took Lightroom out of my computer. With all that's been said in this thread I've decided to go with NX and PSCS3. I think I can do just fine with those programs.

Thanks for your current workflow. I've not heard of Digital Pro4 so will look that up now. I have been using Nikon View-Capture (soon to be NX) and finally Photoshop.

I notice you save in NEF and TIFF. I put all my NEF pictures onto a DVD and then save in TIFF and Jpeg.
Do you also save your NEFs on a DVD?

I really haven't used Bridge yet so must learn all these things.

Thanks for your tips--much appreciated,
Gaye




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