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Cameras with No Optical Low-Pass Filter


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#1 Curve_in

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Posted 12 October 2014 - 06:15 AM

Narrowing my choices down for a second macro mostly body.  This camera will be used almost all the time with a manual focus lens, ext tubes, and a flash.  What I want is to get the nicest sensor with the smallest amount of cash.  

 

Will a camera with no Optical Low-Pass filter make a big difference?  I was going to get a used/refr D5200 but there is a D3300 that is about the same price without the low-pass filter.  


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#2 BrianS

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Posted 12 October 2014 - 07:46 AM

What will you be taking pictures of, and with which lenses?

 

Optical Low Pass Filters were introduced into cameras mostly for product shots, pictures with sharp lines and edges. A good macro lens stopped-down will outresolve the sensor, could get aliasing. 

 

When using with a Manual focus lens, a camera with Ai coupling will allow you to use the meter, and "probably" TTL flash.


Edited by BrianS, 12 October 2014 - 07:48 AM.

Nikkor-SC 5cm F1.5. And maybe 100 or so other Nikkor lenses. Maybe 60 of those are on Nikon cameras right now.


#3 Curve_in

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Posted 12 October 2014 - 10:12 AM

I'll be using a Micro-Nikkor 105mm f/2.8 AIS Manual Focus with ext tubes and taking close macro shots.  The exposure will be set manually on the flash, lens, and camera.  

 

Attached File  15473362955_e1d5008541_z.jpg   93.97KB   0 downloads

 

 


Kervin
D7000 + D750
SB-28 * SB-600
Nikon 17-55mm f/2.8G ED-IF AF-S * Nikon AF-S NIKKOR 55-300mm f/4.5-5.6G ED VR * Micro-Nikkor 105mm f/2.8 AIS Manual Focus * Sigma 24mm f/1.8 * Kenko Auto Extension Tube Set
Sony NEX5 + 16/2.8 + 18-55/3.5-5.6

Carsandkites on Flickr

#4 Gary Poole

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Posted 12 October 2014 - 11:29 AM

Based on the D800 vs the D800e reports I have read, no AA filter will give only a small increase in sharpness when everything else is equal.  Playing with the sharpening parameters will give essentially the same results for either camera.  My feeling is that other sensor factors such as dynamic range are more important that AA filter or not.  I'm not sure of the recording options of the D3300 vs the D5200, but having 14 bit lossless RAW image recording is an important factor for me.

 

Having said that, I still would choose the D800e or now the D810 over the D800 for the last ounce of potential sharpness.  I think the concern about moire' is overblown.

 

BTW:  Fantastic insect picture!


Edited by Gary Poole, 12 October 2014 - 11:30 AM.

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#5 Gary Worrall

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Posted 13 October 2014 - 12:52 AM

Beautiful Image by the way!


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#6 james23p

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Posted 13 October 2014 - 12:58 AM

This conversation is above my paygrade but I agree great shot.

 

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#7 BrianS

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Posted 13 October 2014 - 07:37 AM

The 105/2.8 stopped down will out-resolve the sensor, but unless you dress the insects in a plaid sweater, I would no worry about moire. The IR absorbing glass  in from of the sensor acts to reduce aliasing, at least that is my experience with cameras not using AA filters. 

 

Having uncompressed RAW is an advantage for preserving details. Nikon's "Lossless compressed" is visually lossless, but does lose detail.


Nikkor-SC 5cm F1.5. And maybe 100 or so other Nikkor lenses. Maybe 60 of those are on Nikon cameras right now.


#8 Curve_in

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Posted 13 October 2014 - 09:12 AM

Thanks for the comments on the wasp picture! 

 

If I'm understanding Brian's comments, it seems that there will be very little improvement in image quality without the AA filter.  I'll give it more thought, but I'm leaning towards a pre-owned D5200. 


Kervin
D7000 + D750
SB-28 * SB-600
Nikon 17-55mm f/2.8G ED-IF AF-S * Nikon AF-S NIKKOR 55-300mm f/4.5-5.6G ED VR * Micro-Nikkor 105mm f/2.8 AIS Manual Focus * Sigma 24mm f/1.8 * Kenko Auto Extension Tube Set
Sony NEX5 + 16/2.8 + 18-55/3.5-5.6

Carsandkites on Flickr

#9 BrianS

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Posted 13 October 2014 - 10:13 AM

AA filters were originally introduced to reduce color artifacts that popped up in studio shots, mostly fashion shots of clothing. Nature shots tend to be more random, and are not a problem. My original Nikon DSLR and Leica cameras do not use AA filters, I rarely see an issue. Occasionally, with a lens stopped down a bit- they creep up. But the shot that you used as an example, would not be a problem for a camera without an AA filter. Cameras with AA filters: the strength of the filter is much reduced as modern sensors have much more resolution, often more than many of the lenses used with them. Your lens- especially stopped down a bit, will outresolve the sensors. The 2.7mpixel sensor of the Nikon D1- you always know it is there.


Nikkor-SC 5cm F1.5. And maybe 100 or so other Nikkor lenses. Maybe 60 of those are on Nikon cameras right now.


#10 ericbowles

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Posted 10 November 2014 - 05:56 PM

One of the big issues is moire in video.  While it's possible to remove moire in still images, it is nearly impossible to remove moire from video.

 

I tend to see more moire on large files that are downsized for viewing, for use as a small JPEG, etc.  The moire is rarely in the native image - just an artifact of downsizing in most cases and generally easy to control or eliminate.

 

I have had a D800E since the initial batch released.  Moire is not a concern for me.


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