Jump to content


Photo

Shouldn't flash sync be faster with DX?


  • Please log in to reply
13 replies to this topic

#1 LightMeter

LightMeter

    Galactic Hero Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2641 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Houston, Texas
  • Interests:I enjoy photography(of course)and I'm a gadget freak, especially if it can be used in photography.

Posted 15 July 2016 - 04:38 PM

Since the sensor and shutter is smaller and the shutter curtains don't need to travel as far, shouldn't flash sync shutter speed be faster than 1/250? I wonder if they could get 1/500.


Bill

Still shooting DX digital and don't plan on going full frame.

D7100, D7000, D40, Canon M50, and a few 35mm film bodies

 

"I support capital punishment. Everyone in the capital should be punished".---Fred Sanford(Redd Foxx)


#2 480sparky

480sparky

    Planet Master Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1409 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 15 July 2016 - 04:58 PM

That's not how synch works. The first curtain must be completely clear of the sensor be the second curtain starts to cover the sensor up.

Because it takes a certain amount of time just to get the first curtain open, faster shutter speeds dictate the 2nd curtain start to cover the sensor before the first curtain completes it's own travel.

In essence, a moving slit travels across the imaging surface.
Don't mind me..... I'm just out roaming around between Zone II and Zone IX.
Imagination Images of Iowa

#3 Art

Art

    Eon Timewave Master Member

  • Moderators
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 21682 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Toronto, Ontario
  • Interests:I have way too many interests and they include: Photography, My 2014 Mustang, Military History, Strategy Games, Computer Devices, Science Fiction, Movie Buff, Bad Science Fiction Movies of all types, Military Strategy Game Collector, Nikon Film Camera Collector, WWI 1/144 scale Plane collector, Wings of Glory and more... :). Nikon NPS Member. Professional Photographer.

Posted 16 July 2016 - 10:40 AM

I am not an engineer but I am surprised this hasn't changed in an eon and better technology introduced!


Signature_Line_V4

#4 480sparky

480sparky

    Planet Master Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1409 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 16 July 2016 - 12:29 PM

Well, it's a matter of mechanics.  You can only move the first curtain of out the way in so much time.  Every incremental increase in speed demands more powerful selenoids, more power consumption and a beefier shutter mechanism all the way around.  And increasing the speed at which the first curtain opens compared to the necessary increase in the requirements to do so is not a linear equation.

 

I'm sure you could have 1/500 sec synch if you were willing to pay $15,000 for an 8-lb camera.


Don't mind me..... I'm just out roaming around between Zone II and Zone IX.
Imagination Images of Iowa

#5 Art

Art

    Eon Timewave Master Member

  • Moderators
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 21682 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Toronto, Ontario
  • Interests:I have way too many interests and they include: Photography, My 2014 Mustang, Military History, Strategy Games, Computer Devices, Science Fiction, Movie Buff, Bad Science Fiction Movies of all types, Military Strategy Game Collector, Nikon Film Camera Collector, WWI 1/144 scale Plane collector, Wings of Glory and more... :). Nikon NPS Member. Professional Photographer.

Posted 16 July 2016 - 02:04 PM

Well, it's a matter of mechanics.  You can only move the first curtain of out the way in so much time.  Every incremental increase in speed demands more powerful selenoids, more power consumption and a beefier shutter mechanism all the way around.  And increasing the speed at which the first curtain opens compared to the necessary increase in the requirements to do so is not a linear equation.

 

I'm sure you could have 1/500 sec synch if you were willing to pay $15,000 for an 8-lb camera.

 

:lol:

 

Not that much of a stretch for Nikon, what's 15K to fleece the flock!


Signature_Line_V4

#6 LightMeter

LightMeter

    Galactic Hero Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2641 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Houston, Texas
  • Interests:I enjoy photography(of course)and I'm a gadget freak, especially if it can be used in photography.

Posted 16 July 2016 - 02:40 PM

Yes it seems that with today's technology flash sync could be faster. On the D40, D50, D70, and the D1 if you mounted an older flash that the camera didn't recognize you could select ANY shutter speed and the no part of the image could black out. I think those bodies had a hybrid mechanical focal plane/electro shutter that allowed this(that's why l'll NEVER get rid of my D40). But it was NOT TTL. Seems they could somehow incorporate TTL into that. I know there's a high speed sync mode if you have the right body/flash combo. But it drastically reduces the range of the flash.


Edited by LightMeter, 16 July 2016 - 02:43 PM.

Bill

Still shooting DX digital and don't plan on going full frame.

D7100, D7000, D40, Canon M50, and a few 35mm film bodies

 

"I support capital punishment. Everyone in the capital should be punished".---Fred Sanford(Redd Foxx)


#7 480sparky

480sparky

    Planet Master Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1409 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 16 July 2016 - 05:21 PM

 

:lol:

 

Not that much of a stretch for Nikon, what's 15K to fleece the flock!

 

 

This price point would be for the D3300 equivalent. For the D5 to get 1/500 synch, you're looking at $100k.


Edited by 480sparky, 16 July 2016 - 05:21 PM.

Don't mind me..... I'm just out roaming around between Zone II and Zone IX.
Imagination Images of Iowa

#8 Wheatsack

Wheatsack

    Deep Space Master Member

  • Moderators
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7310 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Christchurch New Zealand

Posted 16 July 2016 - 06:26 PM

Bring back flash bulbs... :P :D


Peter................................................ f8....and be there....


#9 480sparky

480sparky

    Planet Master Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1409 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 16 July 2016 - 08:02 PM

Bring back flash bulbs... :P :D

 

 

Use a leaf shutter.  Problem solved.


Don't mind me..... I'm just out roaming around between Zone II and Zone IX.
Imagination Images of Iowa

#10 Leaviathan

Leaviathan

    Planet Master Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1397 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Cape Cod MA
  • Interests:Photography, Musician-bass, guitar, piano, lap steel, percussion. Audio Engineer-software & hardware platforms.

Posted 15 August 2016 - 04:35 PM

This is why I can't use my D3300 for weddings. The HSS isn't close to what's needed.


Nikon D-3300 18-55 VRII, 1971 Nikkor 135mm Q-Auto, Tamron 70-300 AF. Not much! But I'm working on mastering what I do have.


#11 ericbowles

ericbowles

    Planet Guardian Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 425 posts

Posted 18 August 2016 - 06:53 AM

It does make you wonder whether with mirrorless technology and electronic shutters that it might be possible to redefine the way flash works.  With the front curtain being raised before the start of the exposure, higher speeds might be possible.

 

From a practical standpoint, it's pretty rare that the synch speed is a limitation.  With the correct camera settings, you can certainly use flash with fast shutter speeds.


Eric Bowles

Bowles Images

https://bowlesimages.com/

 

Join my Workshops and Tours - Workshops and Private Instruction 


#12 Black Pearl

Black Pearl

    Deep Space Master Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5342 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Location:Whitburn UK

Posted 18 August 2016 - 04:45 PM

There has to be so sort of restriction but if I'm honest I'm not sure what.

My Fuji (if told to) will switch from mechanical to electronic shutter beyond 1/4000s running right up to 1/32000s but can't sync higher that 1/180s and as Fuji are pretty good at giving users plenty of tech there must be a limitation somewhere.
God is dead. God remains dead. And we have killed him.

#13 Black Pearl

Black Pearl

    Deep Space Master Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5342 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Location:Whitburn UK

Posted 18 August 2016 - 04:47 PM

This is why I can't use my D3300 for weddings. The HSS isn't close to what's needed.


How did you manage back in the days before HSS was a thing?
God is dead. God remains dead. And we have killed him.

#14 Leaviathan

Leaviathan

    Planet Master Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1397 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Cape Cod MA
  • Interests:Photography, Musician-bass, guitar, piano, lap steel, percussion. Audio Engineer-software & hardware platforms.

Posted 18 August 2016 - 05:35 PM

How did you manage back in the days before HSS was a thing?

I've never done a wedding, and with what I have I won't try. Especially if I'm competing with pros with pro gear.


Nikon D-3300 18-55 VRII, 1971 Nikkor 135mm Q-Auto, Tamron 70-300 AF. Not much! But I'm working on mastering what I do have.





1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users