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#1 DigitalDarrell

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Posted 08 June 2006 - 06:38 AM

I thought you guys would enjoy an ignorant feedback I just got this morning from my www.DigitalDarrell.com website. I figured that if I posted this feedback, it might encourage him to make more ignorant but entertaining feedbacks. He didn't have the guts to post a name or real e-mail address, you might notice:

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DIGITALDARRELL.COM WEBSITE FEEDBACK SUBMISSION:

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NAME: Looser, jealous and forced to justify your small one!
E-MAIL ADDRESS: canon@wehatenikonlies
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SUBJECT: Tell the truth, don't twist the physics to suit your crappy small sensor.

COMMENTS:

4 of your 5 cons for full frame are functions of the lens, they have nothing to do with the full frame sensor per say. Get a full frame digital and you would never touch your poxy nikon crap again... # corner image softness # light falloff # less depth of field # more edge chromatic aberration


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He was referring to this article:

Should Nikon Make a "Full-Frame" Sensor?
Best regards,
Darrell Young (Digital Darrell)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Better too many words than not enough understanding." - Darrell Young
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bodies
: Nikon D810, D800, D750, D600, D2X, COOLPIX A, D100, F80, FM, EM, Olympus OM-D E-M1, Olympus OM-D E-M10
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lenses
: AF-S Nikkor 24-70mm f/2.8G ED, AF-S Nikkor 50mm f/1.4G, AF-S Nikkor 50mm f/1.8G Special Edition (for Df), AF-S Nikkor 24-85mm f/3.5-4.5G VR (x2), AF-S Nikkor DX 16-85mm f/3.5-4.5G VR, AF Nikkor 80-400 f/4.5-5.6D ED VR, AF Micro Nikkor 60mm f/2.8, AF-S Nikkor 24-120mm f/3.5-5.6G ED VR, AF-S Nikkor 18-105mm f/3.5-5.6G ED VR, AF Nikkor 24mm f/2.8D, AI Nikkor 35mm f/2, AI Nikkor 50mm 5/1.8, AI Nikkor 50mm 5/1.8 Series E, AI Nikkor 105mm f/2.5, AI Nikkor 200mm f/4, Non-AI Nikkor-S 50mm f/1.4, Sigma 10-20mm EX f/3.5-5.6, M.Zuiko 14-42mm f/3.5-5.6 lens, M.Zuiko PRO 12-40mm f/2.8 ED
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Accessories:
Nikon SB-910 Speedlight, Nikon SB-900 Speedlight, Nikon GP-1 GPS, Nikon ME-1 Microphone, Eye-Fi Wireless Cards, Atomos Ninja Blade External HDMI Video Recorder, Atomos Ninja-2 External HDMI Video Recorder, Atomos Samurai Blade External Video Recorder, Manfrotto Tripods, Markins M-10 Ballhead, Lots of camera bags, Metz 24 AF-1 Flash, Olympus FL-600R Flash, Olympus HLD-7 Battery Grip
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Nikon Professional Services (NPS), Professional Photographers of America (PPA), North American Nature Photography Association (NANPA), Founding Member of Nikonians Writers' Guild (www.Nikonians.org), Charter Member (year 2000) of Nikonians.org
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#2 james23p

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Posted 08 June 2006 - 06:53 AM

FF is in the mind. To some FF is Large format to others its Medium format. 35mm film was not considered the standard when it came out. So as far as I am concerned FF is a myth. Next to answer one of his points as far as light fall off the "FF" kwanon 5D has some of the worst light fall off of any DSLR I have seen and it runs what $3500 or so, as far as corner softness I find the D50 to be razor sharp with good glass and its a $475 body. He needs to chill but he is entertaining. Jim

God bless all those in harms way and Go Navy!



Nikon P900 Nikon P330

F100 w MB-15, N80, FM3a, FE2(Black and Silver) and EM.

Nikkor 24-85G ED AF-S VR, 70-300G ED AF-S VR, 28-105 3.5-4.5 AF-D, 50 1.8 AF-D

Nikon Series E lens, 28mm, 100mm, 135mm, 75-150mm, 70-210 f4.

MF Nikkor's 50 f2 Ai, 500 f4 ED Ai-P.

 

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#3 Luis V.

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Posted 08 June 2006 - 12:02 PM

I was thinking about buying a URL.........

youwishyouhadanikon.com

Let him rant........ he's just ticked he paid $1.000 more for a body.
Luis V.Nikon D800/D2X/D200/D100Nikon 17-35mm f/2.8 AFS | 24-70mm f/2.8 AFS | 70-200mm f/2.8 AFS VR-II | 200-400mm f/4 AFS | 50mm f/1.4D | 85mm f/1.4D | 105mm f/2.8 Macro

#4 David Swift

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Posted 09 June 2006 - 05:30 AM

Hi Darrell. Don't some people get worked up ! I thought your article about chip size and lenses was SO reasonable. Now, just a thought about the incident light angle on the chip - not knowing anything about chip construction, but would it be better (in theory) for the chips to be made curved ?

#5 DigitalDarrell

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Posted 09 June 2006 - 08:07 AM

David, Many have talked about the curve issue. With the DX sensor it is basically a non-issue even with the widest of lenses. I cannot detect light falloff even with my Sigma 10mm lens (15mm equivalent in 35mm film terms). But with Full-Frame sensors the idea of a curved sensor would answer some of the problems with light falloff and chromatic aberration (CA) increase on the edges. I have heard rumors that Nikon is working on a curved sensor. Is it true? Time will tell. You can bet, though, that if they come out with a "full-frame" 35mm film sized sensor, most of the problems will be solved with it. They make a superior product. There is almost no problem with light falloff and extra CA with DX sensors. There IS an increase in noise from about 800 ISO and up. That is what Canon users will pound on, and rightly so. But, everything is a trade-off in sensor design. Canon chose to bend to the market, and their 5D has terrible light falloff and CA. Everyone knows it. This issue is discussed constantly in forums. Canon lovers will fight vigorously for their brand, Nikon lovers will do the same. The DX sensor controls the light better, but has more noise. That is photography life today! At least we aren't shooting each other, or are we? I shot The Mule three times last week.
Best regards,
Darrell Young (Digital Darrell)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Better too many words than not enough understanding." - Darrell Young
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bodies
: Nikon D810, D800, D750, D600, D2X, COOLPIX A, D100, F80, FM, EM, Olympus OM-D E-M1, Olympus OM-D E-M10
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lenses
: AF-S Nikkor 24-70mm f/2.8G ED, AF-S Nikkor 50mm f/1.4G, AF-S Nikkor 50mm f/1.8G Special Edition (for Df), AF-S Nikkor 24-85mm f/3.5-4.5G VR (x2), AF-S Nikkor DX 16-85mm f/3.5-4.5G VR, AF Nikkor 80-400 f/4.5-5.6D ED VR, AF Micro Nikkor 60mm f/2.8, AF-S Nikkor 24-120mm f/3.5-5.6G ED VR, AF-S Nikkor 18-105mm f/3.5-5.6G ED VR, AF Nikkor 24mm f/2.8D, AI Nikkor 35mm f/2, AI Nikkor 50mm 5/1.8, AI Nikkor 50mm 5/1.8 Series E, AI Nikkor 105mm f/2.5, AI Nikkor 200mm f/4, Non-AI Nikkor-S 50mm f/1.4, Sigma 10-20mm EX f/3.5-5.6, M.Zuiko 14-42mm f/3.5-5.6 lens, M.Zuiko PRO 12-40mm f/2.8 ED
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Accessories:
Nikon SB-910 Speedlight, Nikon SB-900 Speedlight, Nikon GP-1 GPS, Nikon ME-1 Microphone, Eye-Fi Wireless Cards, Atomos Ninja Blade External HDMI Video Recorder, Atomos Ninja-2 External HDMI Video Recorder, Atomos Samurai Blade External Video Recorder, Manfrotto Tripods, Markins M-10 Ballhead, Lots of camera bags, Metz 24 AF-1 Flash, Olympus FL-600R Flash, Olympus HLD-7 Battery Grip
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Member of:

Nikon Professional Services (NPS), Professional Photographers of America (PPA), North American Nature Photography Association (NANPA), Founding Member of Nikonians Writers' Guild (www.Nikonians.org), Charter Member (year 2000) of Nikonians.org
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#6 james23p

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    Right Jazz! :D

Posted 09 June 2006 - 08:51 AM

DD what I do not get is the need for full frame sensor since Nikon has excellent DX wide angle lens(so does Sigma, Tokina and Tamron) and the DX sensor performs so well what is the benifit of the FF sensor. For me if you can use a DX sensor that is excellent(like my D50) and keep the camera within the price range of more photographers thats a winner in my book. Am I missing something on the FF sensor? In todays world the trend is to make everything smaller not bigger. Jim

God bless all those in harms way and Go Navy!



Nikon P900 Nikon P330

F100 w MB-15, N80, FM3a, FE2(Black and Silver) and EM.

Nikkor 24-85G ED AF-S VR, 70-300G ED AF-S VR, 28-105 3.5-4.5 AF-D, 50 1.8 AF-D

Nikon Series E lens, 28mm, 100mm, 135mm, 75-150mm, 70-210 f4.

MF Nikkor's 50 f2 Ai, 500 f4 ED Ai-P.

 

MF Rokinon 14mm f2.8 ED AE UMC(Ai-P)

MF Rokinon 85mm f1.4 ASP AE UMC(Ai-P)

 



Pro Manfrotto 055XV with Markins M10 ,Sirui P-326 6-Section Carbon Fiber Monopod with Markins Q3 Emille, Manfrotto Compact MKC3-H01M with Combo Head, 3Pod PTT1H Table Top Tripod with Giottos MH1304 Ballhead.


#7 Guest_photogbuff_1970_*

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Posted 25 September 2009 - 06:25 PM

Most definitely a "C" user. Ever notice how that brand seems to cater to mostly OCD types? :D The nastiest debate I've ever had with any camera users have been with "C" users. Considering how this thread was in 2006 and dug up... (by me, sorry...) I'm sure he's probably shut up due to Nikon's D3, D3X and D700. :D He and his ignorance are rather laughable though. There's names for those types who leave those kind of messages. I believe they're called "TROLLS" :P

Edited by photogbuff_1970, 25 September 2009 - 06:27 PM.


#8 justshootit

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Posted 25 September 2009 - 06:30 PM

The boy needs a job... D
Don
==========================================================
Digital: D610 backed up by a D1x.  Quoted from an unknown source by a fellow planeteer, "Never get rid of a working D1x." I've got to agree.

Film: N90s, F3, F100, F4s, C330s. A few lenses.

Why film photography? I like shooting with the equipment. 6x6 Velvia slides from a C330 have an appeal all their own.

Why automated 35mm/Digital cameras? Event photography is about capturing moments. It often requires quick response. Well done automaton can be your friend or your enemy. It all depends on knowing what it can and can't do. "A man's got to know his (camera's) limitations." paraphrasing Dirty Harry...

#9 bikinchris

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Posted 03 November 2009 - 11:42 AM

It's interesting to see an old thread brought up again. It is also interesting to read it in the context of today. Nikon wasn't going to produce a 135 sized sensor camera until they were happy with the performance and price point. They said that all along, but many read what they wanted into it.

Edited by bikinchris, 03 November 2009 - 10:17 PM.

Chris

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#10 Jon H.

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Posted 03 November 2009 - 03:05 PM

Send him to the Ken Rockwell article on film...the ultimate RAW. That should make him happy... J
Jon Haverstick
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#11 DigitalDarrell

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Posted 03 November 2009 - 03:08 PM

Please note that this thread originated from June of 2006. Back then there were no FX sensors. My old article reflected that.
Best regards,
Darrell Young (Digital Darrell)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Better too many words than not enough understanding." - Darrell Young
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bodies
: Nikon D810, D800, D750, D600, D2X, COOLPIX A, D100, F80, FM, EM, Olympus OM-D E-M1, Olympus OM-D E-M10
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lenses
: AF-S Nikkor 24-70mm f/2.8G ED, AF-S Nikkor 50mm f/1.4G, AF-S Nikkor 50mm f/1.8G Special Edition (for Df), AF-S Nikkor 24-85mm f/3.5-4.5G VR (x2), AF-S Nikkor DX 16-85mm f/3.5-4.5G VR, AF Nikkor 80-400 f/4.5-5.6D ED VR, AF Micro Nikkor 60mm f/2.8, AF-S Nikkor 24-120mm f/3.5-5.6G ED VR, AF-S Nikkor 18-105mm f/3.5-5.6G ED VR, AF Nikkor 24mm f/2.8D, AI Nikkor 35mm f/2, AI Nikkor 50mm 5/1.8, AI Nikkor 50mm 5/1.8 Series E, AI Nikkor 105mm f/2.5, AI Nikkor 200mm f/4, Non-AI Nikkor-S 50mm f/1.4, Sigma 10-20mm EX f/3.5-5.6, M.Zuiko 14-42mm f/3.5-5.6 lens, M.Zuiko PRO 12-40mm f/2.8 ED
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Accessories:
Nikon SB-910 Speedlight, Nikon SB-900 Speedlight, Nikon GP-1 GPS, Nikon ME-1 Microphone, Eye-Fi Wireless Cards, Atomos Ninja Blade External HDMI Video Recorder, Atomos Ninja-2 External HDMI Video Recorder, Atomos Samurai Blade External Video Recorder, Manfrotto Tripods, Markins M-10 Ballhead, Lots of camera bags, Metz 24 AF-1 Flash, Olympus FL-600R Flash, Olympus HLD-7 Battery Grip
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Member of:

Nikon Professional Services (NPS), Professional Photographers of America (PPA), North American Nature Photography Association (NANPA), Founding Member of Nikonians Writers' Guild (www.Nikonians.org), Charter Member (year 2000) of Nikonians.org
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

#12 justshootit

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Posted 03 November 2009 - 03:19 PM

Ironic thing is that KR also has an article on how he got just as good a shot on APS film with an old Pronea and a scanner as he got with his FF D3! These Nikon vs Canon, digi vs film, FX vs DX, X vs Y arguments are all pointless. The various media have their advantages and shortfalls. It's all about what works best toward your photographic goals. These radicals that engage in vein-bulging screaming fits seldom have anything to say worth listening to. D
Don
==========================================================
Digital: D610 backed up by a D1x.  Quoted from an unknown source by a fellow planeteer, "Never get rid of a working D1x." I've got to agree.

Film: N90s, F3, F100, F4s, C330s. A few lenses.

Why film photography? I like shooting with the equipment. 6x6 Velvia slides from a C330 have an appeal all their own.

Why automated 35mm/Digital cameras? Event photography is about capturing moments. It often requires quick response. Well done automaton can be your friend or your enemy. It all depends on knowing what it can and can't do. "A man's got to know his (camera's) limitations." paraphrasing Dirty Harry...

#13 Nikon Mike

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Posted 03 November 2009 - 06:03 PM

A Stradivarius is just an expensive mass of wood and catgut in the wrong hands, but in the hands of a master a $500 fiddle can produce beautiful music. I would guess that the same principle applies to cameras.
Mike

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#14 Dave Whiteley

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Posted 03 November 2009 - 06:21 PM

All digitals will have to go to ful frame frame eventually if they wish to keep increasing pixel count to sell cameras, and eventually to medium format cameras when full frame reaches it's megapixel limit.

Remember though 35mm film cameras were invented because people did not want to lug around heavy medium format and large format cameras in the field. Therefore they put up with "loss of film image quality" for convenience since 35mm could not match either medium format or large format image quality using the same emulsion. There obviously comes a point, except for special needs, where convenience overcomes the need for ultimate quality. So I cannot see digital cameras for the masses going above the old 35mm film camera sizes, even if that means a limit to megapixel numbers in future. Of course Leica has already managed to fit a low end medium format sensor into a 35mm sized body, so maybe we may see one step up from 35mm eventually for mass usage digitals, provided the body does not grow past 35mm size and lenses for the larger sensor get too heavy bulky and expensive. The larger your sensor gets the longer telephoto lens you need to fill the sensor with the same subject from that distance.

Canon dipped it's toe in the water before Nikon with full frame, but as always ran into the teething troubles Nikon avoided by being second. The Brits were first and world leaders with the De Havilland Comet jet airliners, but due to initial unforeseen teething troubles due to metal fatigue from square windows, never a problem with piston engined aircraft, meaning a series of crashes, lost the market to the US that came second and learnt from our mistake with it's Boeing's. The Comet is still flying in it's improved version as the RAF Nimrod, so the design was not that wrong, just needed the corners of the windows rounding off as in all present airliners to avoid fatigue cracks starting at them. Will Canon loose out with it's initial vignetting problems to Nikon for full frame who learnt (just like Boeing from the Comet) the full frame vignetting lessons from being second?

Dave Whiteley
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